Public sentiment surrounding the Israel-Iran conflict is deeply divided and largely negative, with many expressing strong support for Iran and criticism of Israel and the U.S. Comments highlight historical grievances, calls for resistance, and skepticism about diplomatic intentions from leaders. There is a prevalent theme of frustration with perceived Western imperialism, humanitarian issues in Gaza, and a longing for justice and accountability. Users express a mix of anger, helplessness, and desire for change in the status quo, alongside a clear distrust in media representations.

Iran

Israel

United States

Palestinian Authority

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DeltaBot

Are any nations judged by identical standards?

yungsemite

Is my government giving weaposn to Eritrea, Ethiopia or Myanmar? If not, that seems like a very relevant difference in why we might more harshly criticize this.

No one's standing up to argue for, or that we should better fund, the Tigray War. We are seeing that here.

Happy-Viper

The same things happened to Apartheid South Africa, which is the more accurate comparison unlike yours. The people perpetuating it were ostracized globally while people outside of South Africa called for the dissolvement of the Apartheid state.

That's because at it's core both are nations built on ideas on ethnic supremacy and their continued racism is supported by a big part of the population. You are acting as if Israëli citizens are wholy innocent. Meanwhile every single poll and survey shows that they overwhelmingly support the destruction of the Palestinian people. This is also very clear from their media in which the use of genocidal and fascist language is just constant and abundant.

So no, they aren't judged unfairly. We saw a very similar reaction to the one comparable instance we have, which is Apartheid South Africa. What is happening on Gaza is even worse than what happened in South Africa, which was acknowledged by Nelson Mandela even before the genocide took place. So the pushback obviously going to be even more intense.

Instantcoffees

This is probably the 505th time this exact same point has been posted on CMV but there’s a lot of reasons for why Israel’s genocide and oppression of Palestinians gets more attention:

- It’s something people overwhelmingly disagree on. I’ve met lots of people who support Israel’s existence as a Jewish ethnocracy, I’ve never met anyone who supports the RSF in Sudan
- Zionism as a whole is racist ideology right wing ideology. Zionist organizations like the ADL use accusations of “antisemitism” to push right wing political agendas such as silencing indigenous voices, rolling back civil liberties, harassing anti-racist educators and bloating the police force.
- The arguments that Zionists make against Palestinians are entirely racist and subsequently advocates for Israel simply normalize racism against people of colour. This needs to be called out. I think an obvious example of this would be the Paris Attacks. In the aftermath of the Paris attacks, many far-right politicians used concerns of “terrorism” to attack the human rights of refugees. This is ultimately the same right wing “terrorism” rhetoric that Israel employs against Palestinians.
- Zionists and advocates for Israel are just unpleasant, racist and bigoted people. Nobody wants to be around hateful people nor do they want them to exist in public spaces or at all.

But beyond that OP, the argument you’re making fails because the argument that you’re making is whataboutism:

- I could simply throw the argument right back at you. Why do Zionists complain so much about “terrorism” when the suffering of Ukrainians is so substantially worse? What about violence elsewhere?

From a utilitarian perspective:

- we don’t actually know how many Palestinians have been killed in Gaza. The highest estimates have shown that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians may have been killed by now.

TurbulentArcher1253

- Israel are judged by very different standards, but in a complete different way of what you mean. It’s actually the opposite, criticising Israel can get you accused of antisemitism when no one would call you antibuddhist if you criticise Myanmar. The POTUS doesn’t casually convey Myanmar propaganda and lies, the US don’t systematically protect (militarily, financially and diplomatically) Myanmar. There are no senators and congressmen on Myanmar payroll. The list goes on.


- Israel should NOT exist, not just because they’re committing a genocide right now, but because committing genocide is their very essence and reason of existing in the first place. There is no Israel without ethnic cleansing in the first place. It’s like being for 
 Nazi Germany but without the death camps.

vreel_

the issue is that israel isn’t “judged differently” just because people dislike it, but it *acts differently* because it’s *treated differently*. israel receives extraordinary diplomatic protection, billions in military aid, and active lobbying support from powerful states and organizations (aipac, etc). none of the countries you mentioned (myanmar, eritrea, ethiopia, or turkey) enjoy that same shield. that’s why outrage over israel’s actions takes a different form: because the usual mechanisms of accountability simply *don’t apply* to it. people are reacting to that asymmetry.

pugskull

I actually agree with parts of your view, but I think the reason Israel gets treated “differently” is more about visibility than double standards.

I’m German, born in Russia, and I’ve experienced what it’s like to carry the moral baggage of a country’s politics. When I travel, I can’t even say I was born in Russia without people giving me a look or starting a conversation about Ukraine.(these days I say I was born in Sibiria ohh and Slava Ukraini!!) 

As a German, it’s been 80 years since World War II, and yet people still make Hitler jokes or Nazi references. Nobody in my generation had anything to do with it, but that shadow is still there.

So I don’t think Israel is the only country being judged through its government’s actions. It happens to anyone from a nation that’s done terrible things or is currently doing them. The difference is how visible the conflict is. Israel–Palestine dominates global media. It’s on every screen, every day, and people can watch it unfold in real time. The wars in Tigray, the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar, or Turkey’s actions against the Kurds just don’t get that kind of attention, so people react less, not because they’re fine with it, but because they barely even know it’s happening.

That visibility makes people engage emotionally, sometimes too emotionally. It can lead to unfair treatment of individual Israelis, which is wrong, just as it’s wrong to target Russians, Germans, or Americans for their governments’ actions. But the moral conversations themselves, the discomfort, the dialogue, are not automatically bad. They’re a sign that people care.

I’ve met Israelis while traveling, including recently on the Camino de Santiago. Of course we talked about Gaza. It wasn’t hate; it was just people trying to understand each other. The same happens when I meet Americans and talk about Trump. It’s normal human curiosity.

So while I agree with you that Israel shouldn’t be held to a different legal or moral standard than other countries, I also think it’s natural that Israel’s actions get more global attention. The world’s outrage is uneven, yes, but it’s not necessarily unfair, it’s driven by what people see and what the media amplifies. (I would even say that Germany is treating Israel very mild cuz of our history and I wish we would start talking about what’s happening with your government more to be honest) 


And, as long as those conversations don’t cross into antisemitism or harassment, I don’t think they’re a bad thing. Talking about injustice is how people process and learn.

P.S. I actually think that kind of scrutiny can be healthy in the long run. Germany is a good example. Being forced to confront our history after World War II was painful, but it made society stronger and more self-aware. Sure, we still have idiots like the AfD, just like America has the MAGA crowd or Russia has its own nationalist nonsense and the „I am apolitical“ Idiots. (Newsflash: someday Politics will be interested in you!) But overall, that period of reflection taught us what horror really looks like.

When nations don’t go through that process, when atrocities are ignored or denied, people don’t learn from them. So yes, it can be annoying when you’re abroad and everyone wants to talk politics, and sometimes you just want to be left alone. But in the bigger picture, that uncomfortable dialogue is part of how societies grow. And u could always pretend not to be Israeli like the Americans who pretend to be Canadian right now.

SignificanceJust7426

Israel is not being judged by the same standards, or rather the same standards that apply to any other country does not apply for Israel. And Israel should be judged the same if not more harshly: because it claims it’s a western country, because it’s openly being racist and conducting the apartheid, because it has broken all peace deals and because it is intentionally creating ethno-religious state which automatically creates a second class citizens on top of installing a law of NO return. 

If you want to discredit my statement, keep in mind the response from the world, UN and NATOto Serbian actions during the Yugoslav wars in 90s. : Serbians living in modern day Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina were not illegal settlers but mostly 4-5 century inhabitants, all sides had paramilitary groups and “terrorist” attacks, all sides have in one way or another engaged in ethnic cleansing, all sides made intent statements. Now you the point: Western countries and UN has entered a lot faster in the conflict, all sides have suffered sanctions, peace troops were involved regardless of the claims. Serbia, rather forces of Serbian ethnicity, were bombed by NATO regardless of the actions of other sides involved (absolutely not defending Serbia) and we have a buffer zone of Srebrenica that had peace corps and mutual agreement of disarmament, Naser Oric (bosniak paramilitary) didn’t respect this deal and was arming the population and Serbian Republic paramilitary used that as an excuse to commit massacre that was declared a genocide exactly because they had no proof those people are or will be engaged in military activities regardless of Naser’s break of peace deal. Serbia was bombed and sanctioned for a decade, because there are laws that protect civilians. 

So no Israel is not being judged by the same standards, or rather up until now the standards are being bent to minimum for Israel and justifications that other countries had were not acknowledged (rightly so) yet they are being accepted from Israel. 

No international journalists, no international aid or medical assistance, no human rights are being respected, the water/electricity/food resources (like fishing) are being denied to Palestinians by the Israeli, Israel is daily legalising illegal settlements in West Bank and de facto controlling 60+% of Palestinian territory in WB, just few days ago international volunteers have been unlawfully detained in international waters (which is legally a kidnap) and many more have been killed. Neighbouring countries are being bombed at the Israel’s wish and more than 86% of victims are civilians of their military actions with 30+% being children, and if any other country has done even a percent of any of these atrocities until now would be severely punished.

Didudidudadu737

Let me ask you a question. Were the Allies ‘evil’ for committing genocide on Japanese and Germans? We dropped two nukes on the Japanese, in seconds more were murdered than the IDF have done in the years since the war started on the 07/10/2023. We intentionally created firestorms over German cities. During World War Two, we had been fighting for the World, for its very soul. 

Similarly Modern Isreal is fighting for its survival, its soul as a nation. There is apparently 0.2% of the world’s population that are Jewish. Let that sink in. The Jews have already been expelled, persecuted, slaughtered. Generation after generation this has been so, there comes a day where ‘Never Again’ is seared into you. 

In the eyes of the Jews, it is perhaps more existential than it was for us against the Nazis in World War Two. Why do I make this claim? Because unlike Nazi Germany, the Germans and Hitler did not want the extermination of Anglos, as vile as Hitler was, he marvelled at the British Empire and borderline hero worshiped it, at least until reality set in—we would not surrender or negotiate or appease. It is a fact, the majority of Muslims around the world want the Jews exterminated. The Arab Nations tried in 1948 - 1949 to sunder the Jews before they could consolidate; the Jews wanted peace, but the Muslims did not. 

Here is the timeline:



After the Second World War, Jewish survivors sought a homeland in Palestine.
In 1947, the United Nations voted to divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states.
Jewish leaders accepted the plan; Arab leaders rejected it.
Fighting broke out between Jewish and Arab groups while the British were still withdrawing.
On 14 May 1948, Jewish leaders declared the State of Israel.
The next day, five Arab countries — Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq — invaded.
Israel’s new army, the IDF, fought on several fronts and gradually gained control.
By early 1949, ceasefire (armistice) agreements were signed.
Israel survived and expanded beyond the UN’s proposed borders.
Jerusalem was divided: Israel held the west, Jordan held the east.
The war created large numbers of refugees on both sides.


Here we see that the aggressive faction was not the Jews, it was Muslims, here we see the Jews wanted peace, and Muslims war. Then after decades of terror attack after terror attack, decades after UN Resolution after Resolution, which Jews accepted, then Muslims violated and broke. Only this time, October 7th was an act of terror too far. 



The Jews saw 1,300 Jews kidnapped, enslaved, raped, murdered; rightfully—that is what broke the camel’s back. October 7th of 2023 was the turning point where Jews reached a point of ‘All or Nothing’, ‘Kill them or we shall be murdered’, ‘it is their women and children or our women and children’. The Jews will accept only Unconditional Surrender of the armed forces of the Islamic factions and proxies. Do you know how Hamas planned October 7th? By abusing the trust and goodwill of the Jews. Those in Gaza would cross the borderless border between Palestine and Isreal - the Muslims went and worked for cash in hand for Jewish farmers. They then used that knowledge to map out where to invade from. 

That is why it was successful, because for years, the Muslims had been planning it. It succeeded because the Jews believed there was peace. They turned their back to savages. We know this because IDF when conducting raids on Hamas found these maps and their intelligence agencies linked it to Muslims who worked in Israeli farmland; the Jews permitted the cash in hand scheme because they assumed wrong that if people have money, if they have food, water, prosperity, they will not want to fight you for them. Well here is the big fucking kicker—the Jews were foolish, yes—foolish, they forgot to consider that Islam fundamentally hates them, and it got 1,300 Jews terrorised. 



This is why the fury and wrath and righteous rage of the IDF has been all-consuming. War is war. People die. Innocents die. That will not change. 



I will not condemn people for picking to save themselves, their family and nation against forces and groups that would see Hitler’s ‘Final Solution’ through to the end all these years later. 



I am a Christian, I am not a fan of Jews, they bolted my God to a cross because He spoke truth, because He is the Son of The Most High God of Isreal. But you know what? What the Jews have been doing over the last few years, what they are currently doing is fundamentally human, Tribalism in the face of existentialism. You cannot blame fathers, brothers—for killing those who would murder their loved ones. 



The War could have ended at any point with complete and unconditional surrender of Hamas. The West Bank is mostly peaceful in comparison because IDF rule Area C, and also Hamas are not in control there. Are the IDF killing women and children in West Bank? No. Why? Because Hamas are not hiding behind the women and children in West Bank—Hamas are doing that in Gaza. 



I am saying it now: I would not hesitate to drop bombs, to shell, to fill with bullets women and children if the enemies who are responsible for kidnapping, enslaving, raping and murdering my wife and kid—is using women and children to attempt to cause hesitation in me. No. The moment someone goes after my wife and kids is the moment my gloves come off. Yes, if I had a nuke, I would not hesitate to use that too. I mean it literally, the gloves come off. Hamas forced the IDF to remove the gloves on October 7th. Is it awful that women and children are being killed in the crossfire? Absolutely. But it is also inevitable. 



Hamas steal the food and water instantly. If I was the IDF I would refuse to have even let shipping from the UN. If I was the IDF I would have ended the war by separating the women and children on one side, then I would take the fighting aged males, without favour, without discrimination, and I would have them shot in lines. That is genocide, I would do it. With the fighting aged males gone, the war is over. I would then provide for the women and children, I would brainwash their kids from their faith to either atheism or Christianity / Judaism. Now that would be genocide, just like the Allies did by nuking Japan twice, making firestorms in Germany, and also by brainwashing post-war German youth. It worked. It limited overall war in Europe for nearly a hundred years until Russia invaded Ukraine, twice. Unlike the Allies, the IDF are not and have not been conducted Genocide, otherwise the outline I provided would have unfolded. 



In my opinion, the IDF have been as responsible as possible. They have been too soft. The term ‘reasonable force’ here is definitely the correct term, but even then, they are using too little force in light of the existentialism they face. If you ask them to do anything less than they currently are, you are saying indirectly ‘Allow another Holocaust’. 

Anom4764

Israel is being judged by different standards to other nations because it enjoyed a different level of access to the West. 

It is fairly unique geopolitically in the military, economic, cultural and political access it gets to the West. It is being treated harshly because it is now leveraging those benefits to commit daily atrocities at a scale that we might expect from some of the West’s greatest historical adversaries. It would be a bit like France suddenly carpet bombing Algeria after the bataclan attack, but even then there are more variables that make Israel / Gaza unique.

The diaspora: An interesting case study is Wonderwoman (Gal Gadot)… She was part of the military that is now sniping children and has openly backed the IDF. 

The fact she was cast as a classic American heroine demonstrates that the IDF were generally considered ‘the good guys’ (with some caveats) for decades. Almost overnight they shifted and due to the highly broadcast war crimes they have been committing basically daily for several years,  ignoring ICJ rulings, they are now viewed as worse than the terrorists they claim to be stamping out. 

Every Israeli is or was part of the IDF, or was at one time as they have forced service. Every Israeli in the Diaspora will be supporting what feels now like a terror group to someone not affiliated with Israel.

To make things more complex, Israel and Judaism itself are closely tied (mostly by Israel itself), there is a huge jewish diaspora at all levels of government, media and business with ties to Israel. Some of whom are supporting this violence. That creates outrage and confusion, why are my politicians not condemning this, why does every NY mayoral candidate want to visit Israel, why are companies I like profiting from the people perpetrating this violence? 

Then culturally you’ve got household names doing the same, you’ve got comedians like Jerry Seinfeld and Sarah Silverman actively saying fuck palestine in soundbites. That creates strong emotional resonance. Seeing a beloved figure support people seemingly doing the worst things you can to another human will throw you out of whack.

As a result most Western countries are highly polarised on the issue, and because the Jewish diaspora have strong links to Israel it is much higher on the agenda than other conflicts, many European countries have active military partnerships with this regime, some people support it vehemently because they think their people (jews) are at risk, others feel like genocide is being aided and abetted and they are protesting to cut these mostly still active ties to Israel.

History: The Israel settler programmes were always contentious, many people simply weren’t aware of them and they were small enough scale that it didn’t matter to many. This recent and ongoing blitz combined with what people perceive as historic mistreatment paints israel as the instigator instead of victim adding further fuel to the fire.

Social media also is not helping, every fresh war crime is broadcasted daily and amplified in ways others are not. I personally had never seen an in use kindergarden bulldozed live before. I have no idea why Israel would do that, or what purpose it serves in the context of making Israelis safe. But I now can’t unsee them doing something that looks irreconcilably evil. 

Finally - Netanyahu. Netanyahu is a criminal, he was before Oct 7, he still is. It is fairly plausible that he is purposefully whipping up hatred and stoking anti Israeli sentiment because it helps him stay in power. The war going on for longer helps him. The West being anti the war and isolating Israel helps him. He was also paying Hamas pre Oct 7, which he wants people to forget. He indirectly and directly led to the conditions that enabled Oct 7.

I hope the last point isn’t true, but you can’t deny the conflict is the only thing keeping him in power. Public sentiment towards him is beginning to swing hard the other way even despite his efforts, as there are only a few hostages left and he keeps shutting down any chance for a dialogue on how to get them back.

OneMonk

I work in Gaza right now and even here, surrounded by what Israel’s done, I can tell you the point isn’t to erase a country or its people, it’s to end impunity. I've also worked in Myanmar and Ethiopia.

The reason it may feel like Israel is judged differently isn’t because people want to single out Israelis as uniquely evil, it’s because the scale and visibility of what’s happening, combined with US and European backing make the hypocrisy so god damned glaring. Most of the world doesn’t fund Myanmar’s military or send them weapons mid-genocide or give them endless cover in the UN Security Council. Israel is treated as part of the democratic West, gets billions in military aid, and has this extremely broad diplomatic cover even for criticisms or resolutions that are mild. That makes its actions look not just violent but endorsed by the West, and people respond to that.

I 100% do agree that harassing tourists or talking about destroying Israel isn’t justice, it’s just another form of prejudice. Ordinary people aren’t their governments, and the logic of conflating a place or a government with a population is exactly what’s killing Palestinians right now (this whole equation that Palestinians = Hamas).

So I’m with you to apply the same standards to everyone, but really apply them. Don’t downgrade outrage over Gaza just because we’d normally shrug off what Myanmar or Eritrea did. My argument would be to bring those standards and the level of attention up to other places, not down. If equal treatment means universal accountability I do really think that most people would welcome that.

SirCrapsalot4267

The military junta of Myanmar, or Erdoğan, have never claimed to adhere to Western-style liberal democracy. OTOH, Israel repeatedly claims to uphold Western-style liberal democracy and human rights.

Of course Israel will be judged according to a higher benchmark when it has inflated said benchmark itself.

IntelligentJob3089



1) In every other recent genocide/war peoples under attack they can leave- in Rwanda over half the population for Tutsi left to neighbouring states before the genocide, in Ukraine the Europeans opened their doors. Even the holocaust had the havaara agreement and others where 250k+ escaped.

 The Gazans are trapped like fish in a barrel

2) The Palestinians as a whole are trapped even if they can escape by exclusion from the refugee  convention - preventing them seeking asylum in other countries and forces them (the deporting body bot the Palestinian) to make the decision between a UNRWA refugee camp in a neighbouring arab state already stretched to breaking point with the number of refugees, or more usually being returned to Gaza which has for decades been a free kill zone for Israel weapons manufacturers to gain the lucrative "combat proven" sticker for their wares plus a free supermarket for the worlds biggest skin bank to harvest organs and skin for burn victims.


3) every other war/genocide when the water supply network is damaged there is always access to relatively safe natural water sources - yes more dangerous as not treated for bacteria.. but there is always some kind of fresh water source people can get to. In Gaza there is only the rain in an arid region - because the rivers and aquifers  have been systematically cut off and heavily polluted.. to the point that in 2020 they were declaired not just  unfit for human consumption (which it had been for 30+ years before that but.) Actually incompatible with human life. With 1/3rd if children showing signs of nitrate poisoning. This kind of siege has not been enacted since the likes if petra. It is medieval torture to cut a populations life expectancy in such a cruel way. It was killing many babies quickly. But even in the long term the people of gaza who survived the at risk period will have had renal damage from this and reduced lifespans as a result.. now the situation is a thousand times worse with even the industrial quality  water from israel being stopped, the tunnels having been flooded with seawater and sewerage will have poisoned the wells (even more than previous pumping of sewerage from tel aviv into the aquifer) and charity installed solar pumps will have brought this to surface to salt the crop growing land along with the white phosphorus and other chemicals dropped from the air

4) medical care professionals and press have not been protected vocations as with most wars the last few centuries - either - they are being actively targeted or the overall death toll is far far bigger than reported... as they should legally be safe in a combat zone israel again and again does not allow people in to see what is happening. 

5) the awfulization and lies propaganda and justifications are at severe mental illness levels of gasslighting- system of lies and exaggerations to pave the way for mass killings with impunity. Failure to provide evidence or to reprimand those who commit war crimes 

6) very openly genocidal rhetoric from top people and civilian populations alike, tiktoks and gleee, people watching the destruction from hilltops as a social gathering and boat trips to watch the bombs drop. This is unprecidented and horrific in its own right.

7) utter dehumanisation at a level akin to but in many was worse worse than what everyone boycotted southafrica for. 

8) use of illegal weapons like white phosphorus. deliberate infection with polio. Use of indiscriminate dumb bombs (internationally banned from use in urban settings) and all this  from the country that literally has the most advanced pinpointing weaponry options. 

There are just too many. Its like they've taken a page from every historic massacre/ethnic cleansing and genocide and learned how to spin BS how to hide it 

This isn't normal settler colonialism, this is akin to the french and algeria, i'm surprised they havnt stated doing ethinc cleansing of the 20% arab citizens yet like the paris massacres in '61. 

And even if it was "normal" colonialism- it shouldn't be, its the wrong century for that. We should have learned- the world has promised on so many occasions to so many people to never let it happen again, and yet here we are- with no excuse of not knowing this time. And no excuse of kill or be killed, in Rwanda tens of thousands of Hutu died for refusing to be part of the massacres, in israel you get a month in jail.

We are on The precipice of global disaster though climate change , levelling cities with billions of dollars of explosives should not be a viable outcome anywhere for anything I get that some jews want a state. Pretty sure the pagans would love a state to, as would hundreds of religious groups. Saying God promise something 3,000 yrs ago is no excuse to treat people the way they are.

History is history- we sadly cant change the situation of the past- but this is happening now- and isn't internal its being funded by the west

if you have ever asked yourself what would i have done to prevent the holocaust the answer is clearly - what you are doing now

Edited for Numbering as it got too long - but also i can't work out how to format the numbers to not indent on some not others sorry

And also to add israel has less pushback than south africa did https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/israel-apartheid-boycotts-sanctions-south-africa

TutsiRoach

Your headline is correct but your conclusion is far off. If Israel were being judged by the same standards the West judges other foreign organizations, or even other sovereign nations’ war crimes (for example, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine), they would at best, universally condemn Israel’s war crimes on Palestinians, &amp; at worst, label them as the world’s most dangerous terrorist organization in recent history. 

To put things into perspective, Hamas were labeled a terrorist organization after the Oct. 7th attacks that is estimated to have killed 1200 Israelis. 

Per UN numbers, that amount makes up about .002% of the total number of Palestinians Israel has killed since, 70-80% are estimated to be civilian casualties. This, of course, doesn’t even take into account the victims of 70+ years of apartheid that actually led to Oct. 7th, nor the millions who are currently facing starvation. 

So you’re right that Israel are judged by different standards, they’re committing a live-streamed genocide right before our eyes &amp; the entirely western world is letting them get away with it.

feelingsdeayer

In comparison to the other on-going conflict now - Ukraine vs Russia ... Imagine if the Ukranian government were shelling/bombing/suicide-bombing Russian civilians without remorse every few days, we probably wouldn't condemn the Russian invasion because then, they would have a legit reason for it.

If you take the same situation with Israel ... suddenly they're the devil, when they have been dealing with this shit for decades now, including a multi-nation war that tried to eradicate them in the past (talking about the 6-day war, not WW2).

I don't condone what Israel is doing currently in Gaza, but from their perspective it's probably necessary, seeing that their neighbour is a literal fucking terrorist state.

Neckbeard_Sama

I'm a Mizrahi Israeli and a peacenik. 

It can be true that Israel, as the Jewish state, is held to different standards than the Arab states and the West. But the solution isn't Israel not being held accountable for war crimes like other nations, it's all nations being held accountable equally, including the Arab states and the West.

Frequent_Name_587

I think the focus on Israel is due to the west’s support of it. Nobody defends for example the RSF. However, plenty of people still support Israel.

Polar_Tang27

Geopolitics is not about treating people fairly, or ensuring a common standard of conduct for all nations. Diplomacy is simply another battlefield of warfare. Nations don’t have friends, they have interests. These interests ebb and flow based off of how a nations government act, usually when how a nation is acting threatens the bottom line, the trade and business arrangements that allow politicians and corporations to enrich themselves. 

When South Africa quadrupled down on maintaining apartheid, worldwide boycotts and protests for governments to cut ties with South Africa made it actively unprofitable to maintain trade and diplomacy with the nation. South Africa began to lose billions of dollars and was forced to reconcile what was essentially an integral element of their colonial state. 

Israel in this regard is in an interesting geopolitical position. When it was first established, Israel was vying for attention from both the US and the Soviet Union, but won US support. The Soviet Union responded by trying to secure its own interests in the Middle East by allying with Arab nations like Yemen. The relationship between Israel and the US is a business deal as much as it is a military alliance. The Israelis do the boots on the ground work of dispelling organised terror/resistance groups in the Middle East and use their expansive espionage network to ensure America will have stable supplies of Middle Eastern oil until it runs out in 200 years. In return, Israel has the security and international backing of the US to protect it from the mechanisms that would allow larger nations to bully smaller ones, as well as their historical and religious ethnic homeland. 

In this perspective, the network of diplomacy especially as it relates to domestic voter bases demonstrates that it’s not about countries being ‘treated certain ways’ but about whether a country is forcing others to distance themselves to maintain profitability. Ukraine for instance, has decided that having a security partner to counter Iranian drone tech is more important than Western support for Palestine, while China in opposition has elected that winning the hearts of Gen Z by appealing to the Palestinian cause will pay off more dividends in the long run.

No-Inspector8315

You know, I'm going to take an unpopular stance here and disagree with you on a section that I don't think is what you were intending to be disagreed on. I don't think Israel should even realistically be punished for what it's doing in Gaza, and all the blood spilled is on the hands of Hamas and those supporting them, not the Israeli government. I agree with you that Israel is held to different standards than any other country, but also because if any other country had been through what Israel has been through since 1949, Palestine wouldn't exist anymore. If Mexico had crossed the southern border into the United States and done to the U.S. what Palestine did to Israel on October 7th, and caused a comparable amount of casualties per population, so about 50,000 Americans dead, there wouldn't be a Mexico anymore today. Forget the fighting in Gaza, Mexico City would have been glassed off the face of the earth within months of fighting that made Baghdad and Fallujah look like a water gun fight. And the same thing goes for any other modern nation in the world, and we wouldn't have even been opposed for doing so. Continuing to press with my scenario, if on October 7th it hadn't been Israel attacked by Palestine, but instead Mexican cartels coming into the United States and massacring an equivalent amount of Americans, the world would have been in shocked outrage. But when U.S. Marines rolled into Mexico and told the Mexican government, either back our play or face the consequences, and then when Mexico objected to our breach of sovereignty, we started lighting up Mexican military bases, the world largely would have sat down and shut up because, yeah, maybe America shouldn't be doing that, but Mexico made their bed by not handling their cartels, and also none of us are going to take the chance of pissing off America after such a devastating attack. Israel has tried to make peace in the past. Israel has agreed to give back everything up to Jerusalem, the Golem Heights, and a few other minor concessions, which, all things considered, is pretty reasonable, given how many times they have been forced to fight for their life against multiple powers, including Palestine, and have come out on top. But Palestine elected Hamas into Gaza after Israel pulled out in 2005, on the platform that Hamas was going to continue to violently attack Israel and wipe the Jews from the face of the earth. Anyone else wouldn't have accepted that and dealt with this a long time ago. They wouldn't have accepted buses and hospitals and coffee shops and music festivals and schools being attacked. If you need evidence, just look at how the US responded to 9-11, and how the US went into Afghanistan for over 20 years and no one said a damn thing. What's happening in Gaza right now is atrocious, but it's on the Palestinian fighters who have shown no care about protecting the innocent and actively work to put them in harm's way so that they can blame Israel because they know they can't fight toe-to-toe against the Israelis. Their best chance is to use international pressure to get Israel to back off. And Israel has finally said, you know what? No, screw it. If we don't finish this fight now, it's going to be our kids and our grandkids dying in the next attack and having to come back to finish it then. We're done. We're going to tank the PR disaster and end this once and for all. And quite frankly, I can't blame them.     

Nearby_Initial2409

Israel is held to different standards - they aren't suffering repercussions. Iran commit serious human rights abuses and are also being heavily sanctioned. Russia carried out a brutal invasion and is being widely sanctioned by most major economies. Syria saw brutal war crimes for over a decade, and was also widely sanctioned for them. Israel has committed horrific crimes in Gaza and is actively expanding into the West Bank committing ethnic cleansing, but the same countries that sanction Russia, Iran and Syria are happily trading and selling or even flat out *donating* weapons to Israel. They get more criticism than other countries, that is true, but when it comes to actual *consequences* they're treated as pretty much untouchable.

humangeneratedtext

If you believe that Israel should be responsible under the same standards that apply to any other country, then Germany was stripped of its eastern territories and the Germans in those lands were expelled. 

You are simply using the Texas sharpshooter fallacy and choose some country that received less punishment than Israel, but why don't you compare Israel with countries that received severe punishment?

Pristine_Friend_7398

I said that. I've loudly, publicly decried every genocide I've known of since I very first started paying attention. Most of these have made it into the news cycle for a week or so before cycling back out. If I haven't been heard, that's not my fault. I'm sure thousands of people feel just like me.

Israel gets more spotlight because it can easily be argued that the entire western world is complicit, most especially the US. Unlike Myanmar or Ethiopia or China or Rwanda or or or, the US is supplying Israel with weapons directly, intending for them to be used in this way. The doublespeak, tax expense, etc actually hits home.

bug_the_bug

Could this not be because of visibility? Like people know *way* more about the Israel-Palestine conflict in the West because it is by far the most visible in the West for historical reasons (many of Israel's Allies are in the West).

On the other hand, I doubt most people can point to Ethiopia, Eritrea and Myammar on a map. 

To call this a double standard misses this aspect.

RhinoNomad

Israel is a fully functional highly developed country that at least on paper claims to be a full democracy, with institutions. It’s a signatory to the Geneva convention, the International Court of Justice and the United Nations. It’s had a fully functioning democracy, a elected legislature, a fully functional judicial system and a citizenry that understands rule of law.

Several other countries you mentioned including Eritrea and Myanmar are tinpot dictatorships whose problems go beyond their murderous regimes. 

It’s like comparing Saddam Hussein to George Bush and asking why are you angry at Bush for invading Iraq - well because he’s supposed to do better. 

And … say what you may .. but the Palestinians did not cause the Holocaust or participate in mass pogroms in the early 20th century - Russia, Germany and France are the culprits there. If any, the Palestinians were about as friendly as possible until of course bullheaded Britain and U.S. powers of the time decided to take away their land and gift it to the Jewish people - for the faults of Germany and not the Palestinians. 

Try doing that to anyone else. Heck, let’s take some empty land in Texas (or England) and make it a homeland for all Jews of the world. And see what happens then. Now let’s ask if Palestinians are being held to a different standard than others. 

We could’ve carved out a nice part of Lower Saxony or Bavaria and given it to the Jewish folks. But nope, it had to be a part of Ancient Palestine. Why not a nice part of Russia? 

Israel can either agree to be a responsible regional power and act like a developed country or continue to play the victim of holocaust card here. Not both. 

Now none of this means Israelis are bad. But it means Netanyahu and his cabinet are war criminals and until they get rid of him, their state should face international isolation. 

And let’s stop pretending Jewish people were there before Palestinians. That way let’s all head back to Rift Valley in Kenya and claim land there since we all descended from that region as Homo sapiens. 

The people called Israelites were ancient but so were Philistines. 

Jesus was a Palestinian (Bethlehem is in Palestine) - who probably was influenced by Judaism. 

If you genetically test them, Palestinians have a greater continuous connection to that land that Israelis who’ve come from centuries of immigration.

Just a reminder here - Israel needs to have some humility and recognize they’re the guests in that land. Not the Palestinians. 

Israel is an apartheid state and need to be an international pariah.

Fine4FenderFriend

I don’t think that personally. I think Israel is actually only just now being held to a similar standard. There’s no other country I can think of that would have a genocide going on and still not have it labeled a genocide. Even as I’m writing this answer, I didn’t want to call it a genocide, but what else do you call it when you’re killing a specific group of people if they don’t move out of the way when you tell them. We also need to think of why they’re held to this standard - especially by Americans.

America’s history with Israel is one of overwhelming support to the disenfranchised Jews. That’s not to say that aid wasn’t deserved for what was going on, but that’s what it is and idk sometimes it feels like we can’t really be honest about it. When the Holocaust was happening, America got involved, saved them, and gave them a piece of land in a region that didn’t belong to us in the first place as a safe. It was another form of colonialism as far as I’m concerned. It’s no different than when their solution to African slaves was centuries after the fact coming back to an old slave port, putting them there and impeding the locals and stepping out. Only difference is Israel’s aid was continued. They got their support in the first place because they were experiencing a genocide and continue to receive that aid so it doesn’t happen again, yet they are themselves committing a genocide. As an American, it’s got me wondering wtf is happening behind the scenes for our politicians to allow this to go on - with our continued aid.

And I wanna touch on a conversation that I saw in another comment thread about Palestinians being Arab/non white and Jews being white. I will say that in the context of the Middle East and that whole area of Abrahamic religions that based on my knowledge of the crusade wars, the Muslim conquests, etc. that the people themselves were warring over a system of beliefs. From what I know, though they are aware of obvious physical differences, ties to God remain supreme in that region. Each one believes their belief is the right one which leads them to condemn all others, even though all three Abrahamic religions are 3 offspring of the same root.

At that same token, America and other European aid is involved and you are sorely mistaken if you don’t think white supremacy had a role in any of this. Again, we can’t seem to say it bc the Holocaust was so bad, but I want us to acknowledge that in the midst of the US sending out troops - including Black troops - to fight a war and save the Jews, they were simultaneously doing inhuman experiments on Black people, bombing our homes, lynching our ppl, letting KKK (a REAL terrorist group, unlike the Black Panthers) roam around terrorizing us unchecked, etc. Heres a couple things that happened in the time shortly before, after or during the war that were happening in America while we were “saving Jews from racism/genocide”: Emmett Till, Tulsa bombings, Tuskegee Syphillus experiments, Henrietta Lacks, George Stinney, black church bombings…

-This is all just a few things, but this was a constant problem from roughly 1910-1970. It was straight up hypocrisy.

There was a lot more empathy for Jews precisely bc of their proximity to whiteness and anyone saying otherwise is being pretty disingenuous. Irish weren’t always called white. Iberian ppl weren’t always called white either. However, it has never been “black and white”. Whiteness has expanded or shrunk based on what the ideology wants/needs. I want you to google search images of Jews, Palestinians, white Americans and tell me you don’t think we have miraculously sided with the one closest to whiteness.

Again, anyone with a religious faith and studied on those wars knows it’s more than skin deep, but the politics of it  - esp with American involvement - don’t cease to exist because of that.

CelebrationVirtual17

I think there is one major misconception and a couple of points of vital context missing from your argument 

misconception: 

generally calls to dismantle or end the Isreali state is not what people think it means. And the truth is much less scary or drastic and has historical precedent. It’s more akin to the dissolution of the USSR or the collapse of apartheid South Africa than wiping a state from the face of the earth. These states didn’t cease to exist but rather transformed fundamentally into a very different successor state or states and this was generally seen as a good thing. People that call for isreals dismantling either want one or both outcomes (not mutually exclusive) 1) Israel to cease to be a settler colonial apartheid state. Proponents of this line of argument advocate that dismantling Israel in this form to be replaced with an egalitarian democracy for all its citizens not just its Jewish citizens. So it wouldn’t cease to exist but major parts of the state would need to be dismantled or reorganised to facilitate this transformation 2) they want a one state solution which again, is egalitarian and democratic. In this scenario isreal ceases to exist just like east and west Germany ceased to exist when they reunited, because the states of Israel and Palestine would form one unified democracy. 

Context: 

we would probably be having similar conversations about the genocide in Myanmar, china, Sudan, Eritrea ect but for a couple of major differences.

1) western media does not take 3rd world issues as seriously or give them nearly as much media attention. Conversations similar to those surrounding isreal exist but don’t get nearly as much air time and therefore awareness. Another example of this is Azerbaijans invasion of Armenian Nagorno-Karabakh, which happened around the same time as Russias invasion of Ukraine but the former got way less media attention, political action or discussion. This is not necessarily because Russia is held to a greater standard than Azerbaijan but rather the west simply cares about perceived western nations more than non western nations. Israel is generally considered a western nation 

2) isreal is a close western ally and it’s existence was really only made possible by western countries like the UK and USA. So we have a lot more guilt/ skin in the game than other countries. Our weapon’s are used to massacre Palestinian civilians, our intelligence used to find and target them, our money used to fund isreals war, our media and politicians used to defend it and veto international humanitarian intervention, and even our own citizens regularly go to become settlers in the West Bank themselves. In light of this it’s only logical we pay more attention to isreali atrocities than other conflicts/ atrocities. This gives the appearance of greater scrutiny but it’s really just a relevancy/closeness biased.

3 finally we can have much more impact in Israel than other countries. The west is instrumental in supporting isreals genocide in a way we are obviously not elsewhere like chinas genocide of the Uyghurs. We can condemn the latter and it doesn’t make a big impact. But if we condemned or simply stopped supporting Israel it would make a huge difference given how much they depend on us. There are marches and demonstrations in the west in support of Uyghurs, Tibet, Darfur ect, I’ve been to many, but activists rightly understand our governments can have much less impact in these cases than in the case of Israel. A historically similar example would be protests against apartheid South Africa. At the time people understood that these were the reasons we more heavily scrutinised South Africa not because we held them to an unreasonably higher standard.

Hope this answer makes sense and was not too long.

ShuukBoy

Nobody "applies standards". We try to pressure our political allies or enemies into the behaviour we prefer. We have political leverage over Israël in many ways and the culturally look like us, that's why we care.

Timmsh88

&gt; Israel shouldn't be judged any differently than how any other nation in the world would be judged. If a person said that Myanmar should be destroyed for the Rohingya genocide, most people would look at them like they were mental. No one would say that Eritrea or Ethiopia should be dismantled for the heinous fucking things they did in the Tigray War.

How about the dismantling of Nazi Germany? Apartheid South Africa? It is entirely within precedent that a State is dismantled upon committing grievous crimes.

South Africa is a very good example because it has many similarities as a settler colonial state with bantustans and an apartheid structure.

&gt; Or look at how Israeli tourists are increasingly treated around the world. No one would really think it'd be all right for Turkish tourists to be harassed en masse for the laundry list of human rights violations enacted by the Turkish government against the kurds but apparently it is fine when it's done against Israeli?

South African tourists and sports teams faced harassment. I think here we’ve got a difference of amplification. Far more people know and hear about Israel’s crimes than Turkey’s.

&gt; When I look at what is happening in Gaza, I think it is wrong and horrible, and I believe Israel should be made to answer for what it's done. But it should be made to answer by the same standards that apply to any other nation, and it is plain and simple wrong to do any different.

I think the most important thing is to acknowledge when crimes against humanity occur and seek justice for them. It’s not all going to be equally applied at all times. There are many political, environmental, and social factors that contribute the speed with which the world reacts to atrocities. We have to always be working to achieve justice for the oppressed and persecuted - and it will look different.

One could argue it has taken an unfairly long time for the world to react to the crimes of Israel. Their occupation of Palestine and the crimes they’ve committed within that occupation has been ongoing and intensifying for 75+ years.

Thththrowaway21654

I understand your point but I've no idea what you're basing your last sentence on. There are no set standards for expectations in any part of society. We expect our top thinkers to not say anything dumb like a regular Joe, we expect top athletes to perform better than their peers, we tear top entertainment professionals to shreds  whenever their performance falls below what we've grown accustomed to expect from them.

For decades Israel asked to be seen differently than their Middle Eastern peers. They wanted to be seen as champions of free speech, democracy, individual liberty, equality, prosperity and human rights in the region. With higher regards comes higher responsibilities and expectations. The bar was raised.

Much like the US being on the news internationally lately with some less than humane ICE operations against minorities. They once championed diversity and freedom. We could expect that from certain other nations but not from them. The bar was raised.

Gaspajo

Every time I comment on this subject I start with two definitions:.

* **Antisemitism: Discrimination based on genetic makeup.**
* **Anti-Zionism: Opposition to Israel's insatiable quest to ethnically cleanse what they believe is theirs regardless of the means used.**

I am not antisemitic, I am anti-Zionist. I find it impossible to support Israel's behavior. For a people who suffered so much at the hands of the Germans a hundred years ago to treat the Palestinians the way they have is simply unconscionable. Israel is an apartheid state - straight up. I suggest everyone read the book below ...

# The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917–2017 Hardcover – Illustrated, January 28, 2020

by [Rashid Khalidi](https://www.amazon.com/Rashid-Khalidi/e/B001HPCCOO/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1) (Author)4.7 *4.7 out of 5 stars* [4,392 ratings](https://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Years-War-Palestine-Resistance/dp/1627798552#averageCustomerReviewsAnchor)[See all formats and editions](https://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Years-War-Palestine-Resistance/dp/1627798552#)

A landmark history of one hundred years of war waged against the Palestinians from the foremost US historian of the Middle East, told through pivotal events and family history

In 1899, Yusuf Diya al-Khalidi, mayor of Jerusalem, alarmed by the Zionist call to create a Jewish national home in Palestine, wrote a letter aimed at Theodore Herzl: the country had an indigenous people who would not easily accept their own displacement. He warned of the perils ahead, ending his note, “in the name of God, let Palestine be left alone.” Thus Rashid Khalidi, al-Khalidi’s great-great-nephew, begins this sweeping history, the first general account of the conflict told from an explicitly Palestinian perspective.

Drawing on a wealth of untapped archival materials and the reports of generations of family members―mayors, judges, scholars, diplomats, and journalists―The Hundred Years' War on Palestine upends accepted interpretations of the conflict, which tend, at best, to describe a tragic clash between two peoples with claims to the same territory. Instead, Khalidi traces a hundred years of colonial war on the Palestinians, waged first by the Zionist movement and then Israel, but backed by Britain and the United States, the great powers of the age. He highlights the key episodes in this colonial campaign, from the 1917 Balfour Declaration to the destruction of Palestine in 1948, from Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon to the endless and futile peace process.

Original, authoritative, and important, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine is not a chronicle of victimization, nor does it whitewash the mistakes of Palestinian leaders or deny the emergence of national movements on both sides. In reevaluating the forces arrayed against the Palestinians, it offers an illuminating new view of a conflict that continues to this day.

Robert72051

Israel is not ‘another country’ it is a western colony created artificially and dropped on a map overnight. It is not the equivalent of myanmar

It was created artificially and can be ‘removed’ as a colony much easier than a country can be removed. I am not minimising the upset by moving or saying it should be, i am just saying that it can and should legitimately be treated like a foreign invader’s military capture, a colonial territory taken by force, than an in situ country like those around it

LifeofTino

When has any other country claimed it's existence is literally mandated by God, when you set the standard for divine right you should absolutely be held to a higher standard, not that I think they are they're just so outright blatant with their crimes that people are finally getting over propaganda from WWII and calling them out on their sh t. Imagine a man holding a sign that says to kill gays, people detest that and call him out on it, now imagine a police officer in full uniform holding the same sign, imagine a Cardinal in the or congressman, of course they're held to a higher standard because they're the ones telling everyone they're so much better than everyone else. I don't agree that Israel is being held to some deified standards but they absolutely should be when they claim heavenly right to the atrocities they're committing. They have been committing crimes since before Israel was even a nation, they invaded other countries and kidnapped citizens with no charge and no crime just as a show of force and to tell the world they don't give a f ck they're going to do whatever they want because their book and their god and their law says some plot in the desert is theirs so yes, they should but absolutely are not being held to some standards unseen in the rest of the world but people are finally sick of their sh t and rightfully don't care about threats of being called antisemitic anymore. F CK ISRAEL, HOLODECK II...

Adventurous_Put_7434

The problem isn’t that Israel should be judged by different standards, the problem is that Israel ISN’T judged by the SAME standards as other pariah states. Israel has operated with a degree of impunity that no non-western allied country would ever survive without harsh condemnation and retaliation. The fact that the United States continues to supply money and weapons to fund the genocide against Palestinians proves precisely that Israel is *NOT* held to the same standards as other countries. When Israel bombs 7 different sovereign countries in the last month and instead of rebuke they receive more weapons, it’s clear there is a disconnect. I can go on and on about examples of this. 

The reason there is such strong social backlash is simply because there is no substantive political accountability, and worse, there is active support. 

The American population views Israel like the black stain on the idea that America stands for things like international law, human rights, and the inalienable right to self determination. All the while, our politicians support and cheer the most despicable acts against humanity of the modern day. 

The fact of the matter is that you’re right. Israel IS judged by different standards, but not in the way which your post suggests. The standards by which she is judged are *FAR* more lenient than they should be.

AssWhoopiGoldberg

Only different is one of the worlds top 3 strongest countries has undying support of Israel so they get to do whatever the fuck they want without any repercussions

Lightsneeze2001

Forsaken-Parsley798

You're right that there are some legitimate double standards to which Israel is held at times, usually because of the support they receive from Western governments and coverage in the media.

The key difference to Myanmar, or China, or similar nations however is that although they may be (allegedly) perpetrating atrocities, there's no basis to deny their fundamental existence. The government perhaps, but not the nation as itself. It's not as controversial to argue that e.g. Turkey should leave the Kurds alone to their own self-governance in their own lands, because although they won't agree to that if they *did*, Turkey would still exist afterwards. But that's not the case with Israeli control of Palestine - *all* of Israel is on Palestinian land (excepting, arguably, a small part on Syrian land).

You can rehash the arguments for and against Israel being established in the 1940s all you want - I've got no interest in debating Zionism here, I know where I stand on it - but the fundamental reason it's possible to argue that Israel (the nation state, *not* its individual citizens) has no right to exist is because within living memory, it didn't. And within a margin of error, the current Israeli crimes are the descendents of people who moved there within living memory (just, in some cases) inflicting atrocities on the descendents of the people who have lived there for generations.

I don't think it's quite that simple, but that's the argument and it is defensible.

WordsUnthought

Every state is judged by different standards depending on their relationship to the people doing the judging. I would guess there are plenty of people who speak out against Myanmar, I know there are plenty who spoke out against Turkey. That said, what you’re describing here isn’t the most common position. You say Israel is held to a higher standard—by whom? Random people on the internet? 

The mainstream anti-Zionist stance isn’t that Israel should be destroyed, but that the aggression should end, and that Palestine should either be a free nation separated from Israeli occupation, or there should be one state with equal rights and no apartheid. 

And really the actual mainstream stance is still and has long been the Zionist one. Right now the US is supporting Israel whose government outright states that *Palestine* should be destroyed, its people shipped out to other countries and the land absorbed by Israel. That’s the different standard, by and large people in the west support genocide when it’s done by an ally.

And wrt the people who do hold Israel to a high standard, who’s to say they don’t also hold other genocidal regimes to the same? Do you have evidence that it’s the same person holding two contradictory opinions, and not two different groups of people? Finally, do you think this general contradiction means standards should be *lowered* for Israel as opposed to raised for every other country?

K_808

*"Pfft, rookie numbers"* - Emmanuel Macron

nishoba07

Any bets on how long it takes for Bibi to get booted out of office and go to jail after the war ends?

duga404

CrapoCrapo25

Once again Israel’s ability to have a constructive internal debate is held against it.

cocobaltic

A large plurality of Israelis want peace and coexistence, but they can’t win elections because the Israeli right claims Palestinians don’t want peace and the Palestinians keep proving them right, shifting more and more voters with each terror attack.

Luffy-in-my-cup

Netanyahu needs to go for their to even be a chance for things to improve.

He is an obstacle at this point.

Singer211

That would be awesome for the whole world.

LupoWolf2

The man should be in jail for things even unrelated with the war already. But because of his emergency powers his court case drags on an on.

JesusWuta40oz

faux_italian

[deleted]

spazz720

nukacola12

Sadly wars don't end when I've side decides it does. Israel needs to convince Hamas to stop fighting to end the war

Jdjdhdvhdjdkdusyavsj

I feel for moderate Israelis who are held hostage by their far right.

Ok_Lettuce_7939

None of it matters except for the Hormuz Strait.

If Iran closes it down shit hits the fan.

VagrancyHD

 israel is doing the world a favor keeping iran from getting nukes. people rooting for iran, a government that is hated by and murders its own people, is a braindead take. set palestine aside and realize the outcome of this could free a state and prevent one of the most unstable countries in the world, who collaborates with and funds literal jihadi terrorist groups,from getting nukes.

Vast_Championship655

Media will try to frame the war as moral for Israel, while some will try to frame as moral for Iran.

There is no morality in geopolitics. Iran sees Israel as a threat and sees a power imbalance, since Israel HAS muclear weapons, and they dont. Israel sees an Iran with nuclear weapons as a threat that they dont want to have to deal with. It's simple as that.

Dragull

I think it’s INSANE how opinionated the western world is on something they DO NOT understand.

dirtyBIRDS_93

I don't like either nations governments, so most of my thoughts are just sympathies for innocent civilians.

At the same time, the world can not afford to have a Muslim fundamentalist government have nukes, so there's that too.

arschgeburte

billwrtr

civod92

Netanyahu convinced bush Saddam had nukes. And has been trying to convince us since 1995 that Iran's nukes are just weeks away and most people are foolish enough to fall for this, TWICE. 30 years have passed since the first claim that Iran's nukes were weeks away...

I hate how these stupid unnecessary wars kill the innocent civilians. Shame to these so called “leaders”, they will burn in h3ll.

tigerlillytippy

There will be global implications only if global powers decide to intervene.

We should cut all aid and let them figure their own stuff. No one, and I mean not a single country there is worth supporting. Even Israel, a so called democracy, has been ruled by the same guy for decades and arguably committing a genocide. They will figure.

Redordit

Global media will portray Israel as villain, while ignoring any atrocities done by Muslim Brotherhood and their allies.

Lanky-Pie-7

Two shitty governments going at it , not every story is good vs evil

Miserable_Movie8006

Real moral -
Iran vows to export the Islamic revolution to more countries by infiltration or by force.
Iran threatens israel with distraction daily.
Iran uses proxies against israel, Saudi Arabia and other countries.
It funds terror globally.
Israel destroys Iranian nukes.
World is happy but will blame Israel to look fair and for virtue signaling. 
Israel gets the job done and doesn’t give a fuzz about the world.
Most Iranians are happy to get read of a regime supported by around 10-20 percent of the population that controls the oil profits.
Everyone’s happy except som ayatollahs.
The end

techiandos

More refugees for Turkey and Pakistan. More refugees for the EU. More terror organizations in the middle east. More money for Israel and the US military industrial complex.

bcursor

Honest? It’s proxy wars fought for the benefit of bigger forces ones who are terrible at their job and suck at managing the delicate balance of an economy.
It’s exactly like it was in the dark ages, and even before that.
Lords, killing off or discrediting anyone who tries to replace them through fear-mongering and misinformation, while duking it out with their people’s money to amass more power.
But they fail to realize that power is just the movement of resources and hoarding it at the top is like shooting themselves in the foot.
They can dress it up in God, “defense,” fear of the Other, or some sacred “call of the land,” but it’s all about expanding territory and seizing resources.
We’re nearly pawns constantly being lied to by the very people who should be leading us.

ReShake23

Reading comments on Reddit has been an absolute shitshow, i can understand (and also hate) the blind support for Hamas on Reddit, eventually the enemy is billions and we are a few millions so they will win the media war.

But... Reading comments defending and using whataboutism about and in support of Iran makes my skin crawl because that shows how fucking low Reddit has went if there is support to a terror country ran by islamic jihadists.

Even the true Iranians don't support the current regime and speak against it while a bunch of fucking tankies are defending Iran while sitting in their underwear in some western basement.

It's a fucking terror regime developing nuclear weapons, are you fucked in the head Reddit?

Skylink1987

I don't think people have any idea just how bad Israel is/has been. The damage that it's caused and the lives that have been lost.

What do I think of Israel-contlicts?
They're Just the result of another middle eastern ideology that provokes violence, just as any other religion coming out of the middle east geographic area .

What about the global implications?
I think the implications are HUGE and most people don't even realize just how bad .

Ok ok. .look the way I see it is that Israel gained unlimited cash funds from the US  and guaranteed military backup even if they're he aggressor .
Ex:

&gt;[The text of the Act has been codified as subchapter II of chapter 81 of title 22, United States Code. The act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act)


That means if Netanyahoo were detained by the international criminal court , the united states of America would **Forced** to bomb the Hague/the Netherlands/Germany .

Starting to see how this alliance might not be entirely beneficial to US or anyone else BUT Israel?

There's also the implications of Israel having the only one nuclear arsenal in the world **That is not regulated by international institutions or watchdogs**
And it's called the " Sampson protocol" which is said to be planned to activate if Israel loses a war and they start wars/conflicts **Constantly** 

At that point you gotta ask " is this terrorism?" 

The answer might be much more gray than people are willing to accept.

Informal-Notice-3110

Not a fan of the governments of either country so I'm not very invested in it

The Iranians have really shat the bed. Say what you want about Israel, but they are in a far stronger position militarily, societally, and economically than Iran could ever hope to be.

Now that Assad is gone and Syria is firmly in the Arab camp, the Ayatollah’s has no real allies left. Russia will not come to their aid and as long as there is a guarantee of fuel neither will China. They have spent decades demonizing the West and the US specifically that they have no cards left to play here. After decades of funding terror networks that target Americans, taking hostages, and calling America the great Satan, you won’t find many sympathetic voices in the US that will restrain Israel the way you will with Gaza. The Iranian diaspora is actively routing for Israel, for crying out loud. 

The Israelis are hellbent on completely annihilating Iran’s nuclear capabilities and much of their military strength. However brutal their response has been, October 7th changed Israel forever. They are no longer willing to live with the hornets nest they have around their borders.

They have crushed Hezbollah, neutered Hamas and utterly laid waste to Gaza, and severely reduced the Houthis ability to present a serious threat.

The Israelis will not tolerate any nuclear program in Iran for any reason, nor will the US and its allies. This war will be bloody and will not resolve overnight. 

The Israelis are in it for the long haul. Iran’s determination will depend entirely on whether the mullahs can hold on to power. If they do, expect this to go on for years with Iran becoming more and more isolated like North Korea. If they collapse(and there’s every reason to think they can given how hated the Islamic Republic is in Iran), then it becomes a question of who takes over.

Will it be a more democratic government? An Iranian nationalist movement that places Islamist ideology second? The military? Or something worse than what we have? 

We are at a genuine turning point for the Middle East. Russia is too bogged down in Ukraine to care about Iran, China will work with whoever will keep the oil pipelines going, and Iran’s remaining allies and proxies are severely diminished.

Israel has the backing of the US. If the US becomes involved, still a big if right now, then all bets are off for the Mullahs. The best they can hope for is a situation like Iraq where there is civil war. But no one in the Middle East wants that.

The only thing they can do at this point is agree to a complete nuclear dismantling, but the Ayatollah knows that the nuclear program is his regime’s only real bargaining chip. If he backs down, he looks very weak. 

No matter how you slice it, the Islamic Republic looks very weak. Now we shall see if the edifice is indeed as rotten as it looks or if it still has some resistance.

Either way, many people in Israel and Iran will likely pay the ultimate price for this conflict.

Algae_Mission

Most people only know or care about this conflict because it's in the media and discussed by western leaders. 

Most Western leaders only care because there are meaningful resources in the location these conflicts occur.

While I may have moralistic opinions about the war, the reality is that multiple conflicts are happening across the world and 99% of Reddit only knows about this one because it indirectly or directly impacts a resource they use daily. 

If this conflict were in the middle of Africa and affected none of the resources or production you use, the entirety of Israel could be wiped off the map and most of the world would barely bat an eye.

Tibreaven

Let them kill each other. Humanity has a way of unfucking itself in the end.

kevoisvevoalt

johndoefr1

I really don't care anymore. Neither side is interested in de-escalation. They obviously want to kill each other. So who am I to stop them? Have fun bathing in each other's blood. Just leave me out of it.


I think governments, including mine, should just disengage from both and tell them to come back once they've learned to behave.


As far as the strait of Hormuz is concerned, I'm actually in favor of volatile oil prices. So have at it. It's about time for another high price period.

CellNo5383

help_abalone

It’s necessary. It’s ugly and messy but it’s necessary. A defanged irgc makes the region a whole lot better. If by some miracle we get regime change then there may be serious hope for the future, otherwise I think Israel and the USA eventually have to keep mowing the grass every few years. Not a great situation but dealing with insane religious fanatics who oppress 90m people rarely is.

renge-refurion

The US will make the wrong decision. Just like we have every other time.

st00ps1

Zionists have been at the centre of every major conflict, they are the aggressors and always playing the victim .

Every_Food_518

Hopefully it'll be the end for the child killing genocidal ZioNazi state.

BetterWarrior

Israel is doing God's work in eliminating the same terrorist scum that massacred Americans on 9/11 and that has attacked American, French, and British military personnel in the 1970s and 1980s in Lebanon.

Despite what left-wing idiots and fellow sympathizers of these barbaric criminals say, Israel did not start this War. Iran started the War by allowing their proxy - Hamas - to inflict the worst Slaughter of Jews since The Holocaust on October 7th, by surrounding Israel with proxies to degrade and drain Israel of resources, and by making Nuclear Weapons to wipe Israel off the map and begin War with The United States. 

Now, the Iranian regime reaps their reward. And all Israel will receive is meaningless condemnation by the same fools who gave Iran $150 billion so they can inflict carnage, violence, and destruction across the middle east.

Not_Original5756

What can I say. Israel is at war with human decency and Iran is the good guy here. 

masiakasaurus

A significant portion of Israel's population could be wiped out with one warhead—likely leading to complete deatruction if accompanied by a conventional invasion. 


 Iran has all but promised to destroy Israel.


That's why they are so determined.


For all these idiots saying "huur durr, Iran has been close to the bomb since 95"  that is because Israel has been constantly interuppting their program, from killing scientists to destroying their centrifuge with Stuxnet. 


The IAEA right before Israel's attack made a rare statement saying Iran was going ahead with enrichment. 

FormerlyUndecidable

I don’t want to get banned but Iran chanting death to America doesn’t make me sympathetic

Justifyre1

I’m tired of the Middle East. Iran should never get nukes.

The only reason this war is controversial, is because Iran has been sneakily trying to destroy/take over Israel for many years using other proxies(!!!) to do their dirty work/killing.

Now that Israel tries to take out the source of the problem, the world views it as "unprovoked" attacks.. very wrong, but understandable perspective from the unaware

iHateMyRazerMouse

I’m all for Iran having a nuclear weapon. (Not that that’s what this is all about, Israel wants regime change in Iran because they’re the only country in the region the US cant buy off, but I digress). If Iran had one a few years ago we wouldn’t have witnessed a live-streamed genocide for the last 20 months, and Israel would not go around bombing it’s neighbors Syria and Lebanon. And October 7 would never have happened because Israel wouldn’t have gotten away with treating the Palestinians so badly to begin with. And on top of that we (USA) could save millions in the bribes (“foreign aid”) we pay to Egypt and Jordan to keep putting up with Israel’s constant aggression.

Nothing.

When was the last time the middle east was peaceful? I won't see peace in the region in my life time so why worry? There's too many neighbors that hate each other there and with such long lasting hatred we won't see an end of it till one side is completely obliterated.

Hit me up when we all join arms to fight off aliens, maybe then there will be peace.

dialgatrack

this is a US conflict spilling out to the world as usual

MANUAL1111

Russia could try and make their little puppets in the USA leave Iran alone. Will they? Who holds more of the strings, Israel or Russia?

Or will Russia forsake Iran like they did Armenia? Doing this would reduce the number of allies Russia has significantly, a risky move. Iran has also hugely supported Russia's war against Ukraine, so Iran would be very unhappy if Russia doesn't help...

withywander

Very worried for the citizens of both countries, less so of escalation into WWIII. So far. Amused that Trump and his techbro handlers are stuck balancing Putin and the Republicans/US military.

Sea-Nerve-8773

One takeaway that i havent heard about is : the death of the multipolar world.

Russia seems to be collapsing , iran is done, next step china ?

Another takeaway is despite the change in public opinions, israel has the unfettered support of all structures of power in the west

catlover11233

The combination of new UN-backed sanctions and a weakened military are making Iran desperate, Arash Azizi and Graeme Wood write. “Although it still has options, all of them are bad.”

An appealing direction may be the “relative calm of North Korea, whose combined nuclear and conventional deterrent shows no sign of weakness. States that go nuclear tend to survive. For a North Korean option to work, however, Iran would actually have to get a bomb,” Azizi and Wood write. But “the result for Iran will be isolation and poverty … and the permanent withholding of any carrots Tehran might once have hoped to acquire through negotiation. The only thing worse than not having the bomb might be having one.”

Another option would be to go ballistic, the authors continue. However, “Iran’s drones and missiles will never match those held by its primary adversaries. At most, Iran can hope to wound America or Israel when attacked. But its own weapons can never win a war,” they write. 

Or, Iran could more closely align with Russia and China. Neither “have proved reliable for Iran,” Azizi and Wood write. “They are hostile to its Islamism (they crush it within their own borders), and even if Iran became completely pragmatic, both China and Russia have higher priorities than friendship with Iran.”

Ayatollah Rafsanjani, a founding figure of the Iranian Revolution, had another idea: Soon before his death in 2017, he proposed that Iran could follow in the footsteps of postwar West Germany and Japan. “These countries accepted their defeat at war and gave up their missiles to get a chance at economic development instead,” Azizi and Wood write. 

Read more: [https://theatln.tc/Gl1H6YQh](https://theatln.tc/Gl1H6YQh) 

— Kim Jao, assistant editor, audience and engagement, *The Atlantic*

theatlantic

I see Iran changing,   not necessary to a westernized liberalized Democracy, but maybe some coalition of Persian Nationalists, Shahists and militarist, infact I see the IRGC/Quds forces outliving the Islamic republic and repackaged as some mix of  royalist, and Nationalist ideology, and the mullahs being ousted, the impact of losing Syria to a Turkish/Gulf sphere of influence, the humiliation they faced during the 12 day war against Israel (with us coordination),  the weakening beyond (even not having influence it did in Lebanon) as a political,  economic, and milltary power in Lebanon (losing it proxy foothold of a state within a state in lebanon),  plus the water crisis it faces with protests over continued shortages and draughts, the high unemployment, and the high inflation, the brain drain of those in working ages fleeing to the disapora in the gulf countries like the UAE, Qatar, as well as Turkey and the west, as well as the poltical polarization that seems to ebbs and flows with usually the authorities suppressing the various protests, and the separtism issue of the kurds, baluchis, and Arabs, as well as the obvious setback of the nuclear program has all caused problems internally in iran that causing real polarization.

There aso a proabably chance of a Yugoslav or soviet style ethnic disintegration with ethnic conflict between Persians, Azeris, Kurds, Armenians Arabs, Baluachis happening and separatist regions clashing, and declaring independence.

Psychological-Flow55

&gt;  
During the war, Iran fired about 500 ballistic missiles.  
...  
Iran should stop trying to placate the West  
...

&gt;Lacking military solutions, Iran might decide to go for a historic compromise. It would acknowledge that it has lost its anti-Western crusade, stop its “Death to America” and “Death to Israel” obsessions

They have a very weird way to "placate the west" by chanting "Death to America" and “Death to Israel”, firing 500 missiles to Israel and US bases, not to mention all the financing and arming of terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis.

MarzipanTop4944

Tensions between Israel and Iran are escalating as sanctions on Iran intensify, with recent Iranian threats warning that further Israeli strikes may provoke a full-scale war involving the U.S.

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